RIP (Read In Progress) Wednesday

[quillpunk]

It is once more a Wednesday. What are you reading? 👀

Comments

Plato and the Odyssey

[dialecticdreamer]

My mother gave me a poetry translation of the Odyssey when I was in sixth grade, and I was absolutely FLOORED. It made Bullfinch's feel like paste in my mouth in comparison. I'll have to find this version to the book sadly lost to a house fire.

If you survived Plato, try Aristotle instead. *G* I like to think that they would've had a philosophical cage match...

Re: Plato and the Odyssey

[anehan]

I take it Aristotle will not make me froth at the mouth in frustrated anger at his general idiocy and also arguments that leak like a sieve? And also abusing the format of a dialogue?

Re: Plato and the Odyssey

[dialecticdreamer]

It might, but it will be an entirely DIFFERENT set of {idiocy, stupidity, classism]. I would include mansplaining in the list, but... Frankly, I suspect that the cultural attitude toward women was that they couldn't cope with "difficult" mental exercise of any kind.

It's also better as a foundation for the field of ethical discourse, but really that's all the earliest philosophers are seen as now; foundations for next generations of ethical thought. I'd no more trust their arguments to be unassailable than I would allow a Galen-trained doctor to treat me.

Re: Plato and the Odyssey

[anehan]

The funny thing is, I found Plato's sexism the least objectionable of his various idiocies. He was certainly misogynistic, but he also had a more nuanced view of women than just treating them as baby-making machines. Sure, according to him, women are worse than men at everything, but I thought his argument that women too have natural inclinations towards different fields, just as men do, and that they should be employed in those fields surprisingly progressive.

However, IMO the actual funniest thing about Republic is the way Plato has managed to set up an ideal state where philosophers are the ones in charge -- and not just any philosophers but true philosophers, philosophers like him -- and almost no one is allowed social mobility so their power is safe. The only group who could challenge their rules -- the soldiers -- are so tightly controlled that they don't have any chance to rebel (or so Plato thinks). And he's managed to give it all a veneer of respectability by couching it as a philosophical argument and then proved how it's the best system with arguments that read remarkably like modern religious fundamentalists shrieking about how allowing gay marriage would mean that soon everyone would be marrying their dogs.

At least that's what it looks like if one is determined to assign the worst possible motivations to Plato. And frankly, thinking about it like that was the only thing that got me through that book. XD

Re: Plato and the Odyssey

[dialecticdreamer]

You're not wrong. One of the themes of homeschooling my boys was tackling all the "utopian" novels starting with "Utopia," and eventually both boys reached the same conclusion that I did: Utopias are only such for those who fit in perfectly.